Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Discussions about rockets, construction materials, adhesives, nozzles, nosecones and fin design.
Reptiglorandrockets
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:40 am

Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Reptiglorandrockets »

Hi there,

A few months ago, dad and I made a small 4.7L fiber glass reinforced water rocket. As some of you may know, the rocket exploded at 180PSI. As we are pushing for higher pressures, we need a good resin to reinforce a normal rocket with. After doing a bit of research on a few Pyro rocket forums, I found that one of the best resins to use is West Systems 105 resin and 205 hardener. The problem is that it is just too expensive! I have tried to search for alternatives, but I have not found anything I really like. The main goal is to keep the cost below $50 American bucks. Thanks

-Randy
Blog:http://rrockets.blogspot.com/?m=1

Email: reptiglorandrockets@gmail.com

Visit Reptiglorandrockets on YouTube!

Facebook: Randy Truman Jr.
User avatar
bugwubber
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 1087
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by bugwubber »

System 3, and East come to mind. Rot Doctor puts out some good epoxy product but they focus on gluing wood.

Bugwubber
Bugwubber

Team S.P.E.W.
User avatar
U.S. Water Rockets1
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 1778
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:24 pm

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by U.S. Water Rockets1 »

With epoxy, you get what you pay for, so don't get a cheap brand. West Systems is #1!
Team U.S. Water Rockets
Visit USWaterRockets.com
Visit our Blog
Tune in to our YouTube Channel
Visit our Facebook page
Visit our Twitter Page
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. --Thomas Edison
Reptiglorandrockets
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:40 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Reptiglorandrockets »

U.S. Water Rockets1 wrote:With epoxy, you get what you pay for, so don't get a cheap brand. West Systems is #1!
Just wondering, what is the difference of Fiberglass Resin and Epoxy? Wich one it better for reinforcing rockets?
Blog:http://rrockets.blogspot.com/?m=1

Email: reptiglorandrockets@gmail.com

Visit Reptiglorandrockets on YouTube!

Facebook: Randy Truman Jr.
User avatar
Water Rocket Expert
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:39 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

I think fiberglass is better for reinforcing pet bottles. But I have found that heat shrinking the tops and bottoms of two liter bottles onto the one liter bottles I use can hold pressures of up to 250 psi. I suppose for two liter bottles you could heat shrink three liter bottles onto them. Remember just the top and the bottom and the middle separately. Then apply glue. I need to by PL Premium because I have none. I use JB Weld Clear the strongest stuff around but doesn't like the cold and the way it is where I live it doesn't look like warmth any time soon! Maryland USA
Water Rocket Expert
I'm 20
Maryland
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein
User avatar
Water Rocket Expert
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:39 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

Yikes that stuff is expensive!
Water Rocket Expert
I'm 20
Maryland
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein
Reptiglorandrockets
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:40 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Reptiglorandrockets »

Water Rocket Expert wrote:I think fiberglass is better for reinforcing pet bottles. But I have found that heat shrinking the tops and bottoms of two liter bottles onto the one liter bottles I use can hold pressures of up to 250 psi. I suppose for two liter bottles you could heat shrink three liter bottles onto them. Remember just the top and the bottom and the middle separately. Then apply glue. I need to by PL Premium because I have none. I use JB Weld Clear the strongest stuff around but doesn't like the cold and the way it is where I live it doesn't look like warmth any time soon! Maryland USA
Is it possible to reinforce splices this way?
Blog:http://rrockets.blogspot.com/?m=1

Email: reptiglorandrockets@gmail.com

Visit Reptiglorandrockets on YouTube!

Facebook: Randy Truman Jr.
Reptiglorandrockets
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:40 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Reptiglorandrockets »

Water Rocket Expert wrote:Yikes that stuff is expensive!
Yup, thats the point of this topic. I just saw that you changed your signature... You shoot airguns too? Awesome! Off topic, but what do you shoot? I'm Considering weather or not to get the Benjamin Rouge .357 with the money I saved up over the year.
Blog:http://rrockets.blogspot.com/?m=1

Email: reptiglorandrockets@gmail.com

Visit Reptiglorandrockets on YouTube!

Facebook: Randy Truman Jr.
User avatar
Water Rocket Expert
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:39 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

I actually make my[quote] own air rifles. Interesting enough, I own a .50 caliber PLG Air Rifle. This gun can put a hole in a 1/2 inch board pf plywood up to 100 feet away. Shoots 838 fps. I also own a .28 caliber gun that I use to shoot steel shot pellets or blowgun darts or nails. This gun shoots up to 750 fps using a chronograph. Remember that I am 14 years old; I am not allowed to buy a pellet gun. Mine are made of PVC and CPVC but right now I am constructing a pistol from copper pipe. If you want a diamgram of any of the guns mentioned I will upload it as I have diagrams of them all. Did you mention that you were fourteen?
Water Rocket Expert
I'm 20
Maryland
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein
User avatar
Water Rocket Expert
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:39 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

Okay so I did some research too and it looks like JB Weld is the next best thing. There are also multible types at home depot and walmart. I use JB Weld Clear. This stuff is awesome. And yes I supposse you can reinforce a splice in the way mentioned but I don't. I find that the splice never birsts. Only the main part of the bottle. I have made scuba tanks from soda bottles and stayed underwater for 10 minutes at 210 psi with two bottles and a ball valve and a demand valve.
Water Rocket Expert
I'm 20
Maryland
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein
Reptiglorandrockets
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:40 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Reptiglorandrockets »

Water Rocket Expert wrote:I actually make my
own air rifles. Interesting enough, I own a .50 caliber PLG Air Rifle. This gun can put a hole in a 1/2 inch board pf plywood up to 100 feet away. Shoots 838 fps. I also own a .28 caliber gun that I use to shoot steel shot pellets or blowgun darts or nails. This gun shoots up to 750 fps using a chronograph. Remember that I am 14 years old; I am not allowed to buy a pellet gun. Mine are made of PVC and CPVC but right now I am constructing a pistol from copper pipe. If you want a diamgram of any of the guns mentioned I will upload it as I have diagrams of them all. Did you mention that you were fourteen?
Blog:http://rrockets.blogspot.com/?m=1

Email: reptiglorandrockets@gmail.com

Visit Reptiglorandrockets on YouTube!

Facebook: Randy Truman Jr.
Reptiglorandrockets
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:40 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Reptiglorandrockets »

Water Rocket Expert wrote:I actually make my
own air rifles. Interesting enough, I own a .50 caliber PLG Air Rifle. This gun can put a hole in a 1/2 inch board pf plywood up to 100 feet away. Shoots 838 fps. I also own a .28 caliber gun that I use to shoot steel shot pellets or blowgun darts or nails. This gun shoots up to 750 fps using a chronograph. Remember that I am 14 years old; I am not allowed to buy a pellet gun. Mine are made of PVC and CPVC but right now I am constructing a pistol from copper pipe. If you want a diamgram of any of the guns mentioned I will upload it as I have diagrams of them all. Did you mention that you were fourteen?
I know thos fourm is about water rockets, but I must ask, what groups do you get at 33 yards(100feet) with your .50 cal? If your shooting 838 feet per second with say, a 200 grain bullet, that's about 280 foot pounds of energy out of your homemade airgun! That is actually is more powerful than a subsonic .22 LR!
As you could tell, I'm very interested in your homemade air rifles. And yup, I'm 14. :-)
Blog:http://rrockets.blogspot.com/?m=1

Email: reptiglorandrockets@gmail.com

Visit Reptiglorandrockets on YouTube!

Facebook: Randy Truman Jr.
Reptiglorandrockets
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:40 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Reptiglorandrockets »

Water Rocket Expert wrote:Okay so I did some research too and it looks like JB Weld is the next best thing. There are also multible types at home depot and walmart. I use JB Weld Clear. This stuff is awesome. And yes I supposse you can reinforce a splice in the way mentioned but I don't. I find that the splice never birsts. Only the main part of the bottle. I have made scuba tanks from soda bottles and stayed underwater for 10 minutes at 210 psi with two bottles and a ball valve and a demand valve.
I have found that J-B Weld is great for attaching fins and doing small repairs on the rockets if something were to get damaged. The problem is that this epoxy really doesn't soak into the fiberglass cloth that well.

I'm pretty sure that scuba tanks hold more pressure than 210PSI. :-) How much does your reinforced bottles weigh?
Blog:http://rrockets.blogspot.com/?m=1

Email: reptiglorandrockets@gmail.com

Visit Reptiglorandrockets on YouTube!

Facebook: Randy Truman Jr.
User avatar
Water Rocket Expert
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:39 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

Oh so much I will try to answer! Well I have not tried the grouping but I can hit a can off a post at about 100 feet. To be honest, my bullets are not 200 grains. I am firing marbles (54 grains) and ball bearings (110 grains). Unfortunately I do not have an email so if you want to learn more, about my guns, there is a website called ultimate chat zone where you can text chat and webcam chat (just search for it in Google) it's the teen chat. I hope your allowed to by your parents (not to offend you). I typically shoot double A batteries (AA type) which are pretty heavy out of my gun also. Maybe we could set up a time to meet at that website (you can use it without signing up but it is better to because you can have a user name such as your repigrandirockets or whatever it is. I can post a diagram here but it will take a few days. I don't think they care what we talk about really I hope not! The scuba tank I made was homemade from a three liter or two liter soda bottle (two of them strapped together and reinforced the way I talked about). It only works for a few minutes (10 minutes or less). The bottles don't way too much I mean I don't know how many ounces or grams but just like any other splice maybe a bit more since there thicker but if you consider the fiberglass or West Systems then it's the same. I am into all kinds of explosion things like cap guns and taking the powder out of the caps and exploding it and making air soft guns from cap guns and taking all the powder from ten rings of caps and putting it all in one or hammering a roll of fifty caps! By the way, I use JB Weld Clear for my splicing (as I said I don't have a caulk gun or PL Premium I have to get some). Check out the chat website and get back to me maybe this forum could make a chat site. I will try to get back to you tomorrow. If you sign up with that name we could meet at a certain time that we set up on here. My account name is Sean*14*.

Here is the link: http://www.ultimate-chatzone.com/teenschat.html

Be careful on this chat it is good for friends but if you have any moral values then the stuff talked about on the main room is trashy. You can private message people (that would work for us)


This forum is great! OT: OT: OT: OT: OT: OT: OT:
Water Rocket Expert
I'm 20
Maryland
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein
User avatar
Water Rocket Expert
WRA2 Member
WRA2 Member
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:39 am

Re: Alternatives to West Systems Epoxy?

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

:stars: Oh you were going to use the West Systems to glue the fiberglass.I got the idea you were going to paint the stuff on the bottle to make the plastic thicker. I'm dumb.
Water Rocket Expert
I'm 20
Maryland
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein