Anti gravity

Discussions about rockets, construction materials, adhesives, nozzles, nosecones and fin design.
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Re: Anti gravity

Post by WRA2 »

I think that the solution to rouge teams self proclaiming their own "world records" without following the class rules is simple, ignore them. The main motivation for rouge teams like Anti Gravity and Air Command is simple...Profit. For anti gravity, it is selling overpriced water rocket and parts that they manufacture (that could all be easily made at home). For Air Command it is ad revenue from his YouTube and website. The best way to remove incentive to make rouge non compliant record claims is to not patronize their "businesses" and pass the word on to others to do the same. Don't visit their websites, watch their videos, or purchase their products and pass word to others to do the same. You could even unsubscribe to YouTube channels and remove bookmarks to the sites from your browsers.

Think of it this way. If you spent a lot of time and effort building and flying a compliant rocket to set the record. Then a short time later a rouge team came along and decided that the record you held might make good advertising for their business or bring in ad revenue and they built a non compliant rocket to beat you with so that they could "proclaim a "world record" and drive more traffic to a website which was either getting paid to view ads or to sell product.

Not following the established rules is just plain rude and poor taste PU: and teams participating in the practice should be ignored.
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Re: Anti gravity

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

While I do agree, it is important that people shouldn't stop buying from anti gravity just because he makes rouge records. That is how he makes money that is his job and what happens if you lose your job.....Street guy, ain't cool. In fact his water rockets he sells are cool, work well (maybe not as claimed) and can introduce someone into water rocketry who doesn't know how to get started. For air command, he has told me he does it as a fun thing with his kids but I am sure that he does do it to for the money but also it is just fun. There is no point in not supporting him getting a YouTube income and I think his videos are awesome. Especially his burst test videos. He spends a lot of time on in. The idea of unsubscribing, there is a place for that if they start to raid the web telling everyone of their "record" but air command hasn't done that yet and anti gravity, well he did his before the WRA2 was formed. I do see however your perspective.
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Re: Anti gravity

Post by WRA2 »

Water Rocket Expert wrote:While I do agree, it is important that people shouldn't stop buying from anti gravity just because he makes rouge records. That is how he makes money that is his job and what happens if you lose your job.....Street guy, ain't cool. In fact his water rockets he sells are cool, work well (maybe not as claimed) and can introduce someone into water rocketry who doesn't know how to get started. For air command, he has told me he does it as a fun thing with his kids but I am sure that he does do it to for the money but also it is just fun. There is no point in not supporting him getting a YouTube income and I think his videos are awesome. Especially his burst test videos. He spends a lot of time on in. The idea of unsubscribing, there is a place for that if they start to raid the web telling everyone of their "record" but air command hasn't done that yet and anti gravity, well he did his before the WRA2 was formed. I do see however your perspective.
I didn't say to avoid the sites now, only if they make "self proclaimed" records, Hopefully the threat of a boycott by the community will help them "see the light" and compete fairly for an official record.

As far your "job" example, His job is to sell product but wouldn't it be like misrepresenting the product he was selling by using a "self proclaimed record" to generate interest in what he was selling. His previous record was accepted by the WRA2 and stood until a team beat it using a WRA2 compliant rocket. That was 10 years ago and he still has the video titled "world record pop bottle rocket" That title should have changed 10 years ago when he no longer had the record. Some people still assume he has the record because of that video and I have to constantly correct people that mention it in emails.

As for Air command, He has eyes on the record ever since day one. He tried everything in his power to disrupt the association and the forum so it is only a matter of time before he tries to "self proclaim" too. He will do anything to generate traffic to his site and videos.

These "self proclaimed records" will create confusion and devalue the record overall and need to be discouraged and the best way to do that is to avoid the websites of anyone "proclaiming" their own version of the record.
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Re: Anti gravity

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

I don't mind him trying to get traffic to his sites and videos, but self proclaiming that is another thing. The thing I can see would be okay would be saying bluntly say if he sent a rocket to 2600', "Everyone, I launched a WRA2 non compliant rocket and now I am self proclaiming my self with the world record, but I did not follow the rules. It is just the highest rocket and is my personal best not a WRA2 record and not by the real rules." That would be find with me, but it is true the antigravity must change their video names.

Thanks for informing me that they were recognized by the WRA2 until another team beat them. That helped.
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Re: Anti gravity

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Water Rocket Expert wrote:I don't mind him trying to get traffic to his sites and videos, but self proclaiming that is another thing. The thing I can see would be okay would be saying bluntly say if he sent a rocket to 2600', "Everyone, I launched a WRA2 non compliant rocket and now I am self proclaiming my self with the world record, but I did not follow the rules. It is just the highest rocket and is my personal best not a WRA2 record and not by the real rules." That would be find with me, but it is true the antigravity must change their video names.
That is the kind of thinking that gets the "arms race" started for "non compliant rockets". That is what has to be avoided as it would degrade into an "anything goes" competition where the team that can get away with building the largest (most volume) rocket and who finds a place that it can be launched (were government regulations are ignored) will win or worse yet, teams will start building "ground assist" devices to toss, catapult, slingshot" their rockets or some team machines a pressure vessel out of a block of aluminum.

Non compliant flights are to be considered as nothing more than "demonstrations" by everyone.

Water Rocket Expert wrote:Thanks for informing me that they were recognized by the WRA2 until another team beat them. That helped.
No problem.
It was actually a bigger achievement to comply with the WRA2 rules as the criteria for the WRA2 record was also more strict that what AGR used.

Here are some of the differences:
AGR's record was only one flight. The WRA2 required an average of two flights (similar to land speed records where the competitor has to run each direction and average the results). A record rocket should be able to produce similar results repeatedly.

AGR used a peak altimeter (lighter payload)

AGR used no onboard camera (lighter payload)

AGR brought a tank of nitrogen to launch with (at the time WRA2 competitors were required to compress their own air at the launch site)
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Re: Anti gravity

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

I did notice they used nitrogen, but the point was before their was WRA2 their was no criteria for a world record which caused confusion but because of that they were able to claim a record with "easy rules".
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Re: Anti gravity

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Water Rocket Expert wrote:I did notice they used nitrogen, but the point was before their was WRA2 their was no criteria for a world record which caused confusion but because of that they were able to claim a record with "easy rules".
Their self proclaimed record was accepted as the "target" altitude even though they used nitrogen and stood for about a year until it was beaten.

The reason we had the "compress your own air at the launch site rule" was to prevent "stomp rockets". Since a rocket could be filled and launched very quickly with a tank, no tanks of any kind were allowed in the competitions. Teams had to use air compressors only. A rocket that could be filled and launched quickly could be build purposely "less sturdy" since it would not need to hold pressure very long which could give a weight advantage.

I believe that the "no tank rule" is what they had a problem with since they use nitrogen (different gasses can store more energy than air) We wanted everyone using only air so that complex "handicapping" formulas would not need to be applied based on the compressed gas used.

The rules were amended a few years later to allow air tanks but yo eliminate the "fill and launch quickly" advantage, the team using a tank would have to hold the rocket once fully pressurized for 10 minutes prior to launching.

I am not sure why they didn't rename their video after they were beaten as the rocket that beat them had to follow stricter rules. Makes me wonder how many people just assume that the water rocket altitude record is 1,242 feet from seeing that video (especially if they don't look further).

"Self proclaiming" is really just misleading the public.
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Re: Anti gravity

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

He no longer replies to my emails. I may have the wrong email. Maybe I will attempt to find his personal email.
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Re: Anti gravity

Post by bugwubber »

Water Rocket Expert wrote:He no longer replies to my emails. Maybe I will attempt to find his personal email.
Not cool. He's not here because he chooses not to be.

This horse is dead. Bury it!
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Re: Anti gravity

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

What kind of soil should a use........................potting soil, top soil,...........Na, BEDROCK!

I think this is the longest thread in a long time.
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Re: Anti gravity

Post by bugwubber »

Water Rocket Expert wrote:What kind of soil should a use........................potting soil, top soil,...........Na, BEDROCK!

I think this is the longest thread in a long time.
Anti-matter
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