Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

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bugwubber
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by bugwubber »

Last night I had a dream. Thought we needed to discuss a good name for this thing.

One thing lead to another and I ended up redesigning it in my head.

Here's what I came.up with...

Like it?
tmp_13487-20141223_0757411625089867.jpg
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by bugwubber »

Forgot the zip ties...
tmp_13487-20141223_082004-1214130610.jpg
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by U.S. Water Rockets »

The original name in your video was pretty descriptive. You used the term "Air Start", which we had in our original post. It comes from NASA where they describe how certain engines are not designed to be started in the air, hence their reason for explaining why some of their great booster engines cannot be used for 2nd stage engines. For water rockets, it seems appropriate to separate a staging mechanism that is passive like a crushing sleeve, or active. The distinction being that this design can start at any point in the flight, using a trigger mechanism.
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by bugwubber »

U.S. Water Rockets wrote:
bugwubber wrote:
Blenderite wrote:Had some spare time today so I made this.

That's a greatl video. What program did you use to make that?
Based on his handle on the forum, "Blender" would be a good guess!
Good point. The head cold made me ask it.
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by bugwubber »

U.S. Water Rockets wrote:The original name in your video was pretty descriptive. You used the term "Air Start", which we had in our original post. It comes from NASA where they describe how certain engines are not designed to be started in the air, hence their reason for explaining why some of their great booster engines cannot be used for 2nd stage engines. For water rockets, it seems appropriate to separate a staging mechanism that is passive like a crushing sleeve, or active. The distinction being that this design can start at any point in the flight, using a trigger mechanism.
Excellent point!
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by Blenderite »

Yeah I used Blender to create the animations and then I edited it all together with Lightworks.
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by Water Rocket Expert »

Blenderite wrote:The only problem I could possibly see with using this as a staging mechanism would be the force required to separate them. It looks in the video like the rocket launches after it reaches the end of the lanyard. The sudden jerk releases the rocket. Unless I am mistaken, a water rocket doesn't have a sudden jerk phase.

Or am I being a sudden jerk? I am too tired to be thinking about this right now lol!
It may require excess force, but if it was on the edge of releasing, possibly with a spring then I wonder if it would have enough. If a rocket puts out say 20lbs of force, then it may separate. But I'm not sure if the time in between for the first stage to slow down for the jerking acceleration of the second, would leave too much time for say, the second stage to topple over.
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by bugwubber »

Water Rocket Expert wrote:
Blenderite wrote:The only problem I could possibly see with using this as a staging mechanism would be the force required to separate them. It looks in the video like the rocket launches after it reaches the end of the lanyard. The sudden jerk releases the rocket. Unless I am mistaken, a water rocket doesn't have a sudden jerk phase.

Or am I being a sudden jerk? I am too tired to be thinking about this right now lol!
It may require excess force, but if it was on the edge of releasing, possibly with a spring then I wonder if it would have enough. If a rocket puts out say 20lbs of force, then it may separate. But I'm not sure if the time in between for the first stage to slow down for the jerking acceleration of the second, would leave too much time for say, the second stage to topple over.
TC:
A rocket can have a sudden jerk phase if a parachute opens too early or late. Many a rocket has been "zippered" by accidental parachute deployment during ascension or by having too long of a delay.

So if you set a parachute up just attached to the air start mech, you could have servo controlled air start at any point in the flight profile where the rocket is travelling fast enough.

Another possibility is that the mechanical advantage gained using lever-latches could mean that a jerk isn't even needed.
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by Blenderite »

With a retainer ring such as I demonstrated, I don't think that would be a problem, correct?

The main problem that I see with my design is that the release pin may get stuck if there is excessive pressure from the claws which would be pushed out by the rocket. I know there is a solution to this problem, I just can't remember what it is called. Basically it is three straps, I believe each one is hooked to the previous one. Then they are looped in some manner which creates a very strong, but low strain on the release pin, which would be easier to release.

Excuse me while I go hit my head on a rock until I remember what that kind of system is called.
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by rumnass »

Blenderite wrote:With a retainer ring such as I demonstrated, I don't think that would be a problem, correct?

The main problem that I see with my design is that the release pin may get stuck if there is excessive pressure from the claws which would be pushed out by the rocket. I know there is a solution to this problem, I just can't remember what it is called. Basically it is three straps, I believe each one is hooked to the previous one. Then they are looped in some manner which creates a very strong, but low strain on the release pin, which would be easier to release.

Excuse me while I go hit my head on a rock until I remember what that kind of system is called.

3-ring release system Invented by Bill Booth, look on Wikipedia there is a nice animation of it in action. It look like you will need very strong plastic rings to make one. there is a bit of science evolved with the mechanical forces this system can handle.

The 3 Ring: What It Is, And How It Works
http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?Ca ... tBy=DATE_D
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by U.S. Water Rockets »

bugwubber wrote:
Water Rocket Expert wrote:
Blenderite wrote:The only problem I could possibly see with using this as a staging mechanism would be the force required to separate them. It looks in the video like the rocket launches after it reaches the end of the lanyard. The sudden jerk releases the rocket. Unless I am mistaken, a water rocket doesn't have a sudden jerk phase.

Or am I being a sudden jerk? I am too tired to be thinking about this right now lol!
It may require excess force, but if it was on the edge of releasing, possibly with a spring then I wonder if it would have enough. If a rocket puts out say 20lbs of force, then it may separate. But I'm not sure if the time in between for the first stage to slow down for the jerking acceleration of the second, would leave too much time for say, the second stage to topple over.
TC:
A rocket can have a sudden jerk phase if a parachute opens too early or late. Many a rocket has been "zippered" by accidental parachute deployment during ascension or by having too long of a delay.

So if you set a parachute up just attached to the air start mech, you could have servo controlled air start at any point in the flight profile where the rocket is travelling fast enough.

Another possibility is that the mechanical advantage gained using lever-latches could mean that a jerk isn't even needed.
If you created the system so that the parachute pulled out a pin that was holding the system from releasing, then there would be no huge jerk because the pin would pull out before the parachute were really jerking back on the rocket. It might not be necessary to try and minimize the jerk?
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by bugwubber »

U.S. Water Rockets wrote: If you created the system so that the parachute pulled out a pin that was holding the system from releasing, then there would be no huge jerk because the pin would pull out before the parachute were really jerking back on the rocket. It might not be necessary to try and minimize the jerk?
Right I guess the question is, how much force will it take to pull that pin.

The 3-ring release sounds interesting- I bet that would make an excellent servo controlled parachute line release for those tree landings.
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by Blenderite »

rumnass wrote:3-ring release system Invented by Bill Booth, look on Wikipedia there is a nice animation of it in action. It look like you will need very strong plastic rings to make one. there is a bit of science evolved with the mechanical forces this system can handle.

The 3 Ring: What It Is, And How It Works
http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?Ca ... tBy=DATE_D
That is exactly what I was thinking of! Thanks for that!
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by RaketfuedRockets »

This new video from USWR is amazingly well made.
[youtube][/youtube]

Well done, guys!
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Re: Cheezy Water Rocket Toy with Potential

Post by RaketfuedRockets »

Well, for some reason the video doesn't work in the forum. :/
http://youtu.be/GfBjgC1E6yg
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