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The Frontier of the Universe

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RaZias
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The Frontier of the Universe

Post by RaZias » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:51 am

I usually read quantum physics and I was wondering how is the frontier of the universe.
Well...it seems it was no frontier but it´s finite.

It´s like our planet, you can go always forward that you won´t fall, you are just going in circles.
The only way to get out of out planet it´s to move in the 3rd dimension, the height.

The point is that in our universe, in every dimension you move you are circulating it like a planet with 800 Giga light-years of diameter.
To get out of it you need to move by a extra-dimension.
So the universe is a object with shape of more than 3 dimensions.

The new quantum physics (M-Theory of Supertrings) talk about another physical dimensions.

Don´t think about "dimensions" as do sci-fi stuff of alternative realities (that´s related to a so called "Fractal Theory" of the 80s).

Imagine a paper, it´s a 3D object, but is so thin that the tickness is almost gone.
You could considerate it a 2D object.

Now imagine that the tickness of the extra-spatial dimensions of an object are microscopical.
Just because you can´t see them, you say they don´t exist. You say every thing is 3D.

But why the air (space) were we move only allows 3D moves ?
Since the space it´s so big we should move in every dimension...or even see the extra-dimensions of an enourmous object...

The point is that the extra-dimensions are so small that aren´t detected and since they are small you can´t move through them neither.
Actually you are moving in them but it´s said that those dimensions are "closed" so they would be like our universe, so you are moving in circles through those small dimensions.

This is based in the book "An Elegant Universe" of Brian Green.
Also I read some stuff from some citations posted in internet from another book.


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Re: The Frontier of the Universe

Post by Tim Chen » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:17 pm

RaZias wrote:I usually read quantum physics and I was wondering how is the frontier of the universe.
Well...it seems it was no frontier but it´s finite.

It´s like our planet, you can go always forward that you won´t fall, you are just going in circles.
The only way to get out of out planet it´s to move in the 3rd dimension, the height.

The point is that in our universe, in every dimension you move you are circulating it like a planet with 800 Giga light-years of diameter.
To get out of it you need to move by a extra-dimension.
So the universe is a object with shape of more than 3 dimensions.

The new quantum physics (M-Theory of Supertrings) talk about another physical dimensions.

Don´t think about "dimensions" as do sci-fi stuff of alternative realities (that´s related to a so called "Fractal Theory" of the 80s).

Imagine a paper, it´s a 3D object, but is so thin that the tickness is almost gone.
You could considerate it a 2D object.

Now imagine that the tickness of the extra-spatial dimensions of an object are microscopical.
Just because you can´t see them, you say they don´t exist. You say every thing is 3D.

But why the air (space) were we move only allows 3D moves ?
Since the space it´s so big we should move in every dimension...or even see the extra-dimensions of an enourmous object...

The point is that the extra-dimensions are so small that aren´t detected and since they are small you can´t move through them neither.
Actually you are moving in them but it´s said that those dimensions are "closed" so they would be like our universe, so you are moving in circles through those small dimensions.

This is based in the book "An Elegant Universe" of Brian Green.
Also I read some stuff from some citations posted in internet from another book.

I find the subject fascinating but my math skills are probably too weak to be able to understand the abstract theories of quantum physics. I still like to read about all the odd things and how some day we might be able to use them for our own human purposes. I'm very interested in someone using quantum entanglement to send information instantly across any distance. That would be the most amazing thing ever done!


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Re: The Frontier of the Universe

Post by RaZias » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:46 am

I read about "quantum entanglement", it´s about 1 photon that it´s splitted in 2 twin photons.
When one photon curves, the twin will do exactly the same instantiosly in spite of the distance between them. Like they were comunicating one with each other more faster than the speed of light.

But comunication trough that mean is impossible because they say that when you move one twin (so the other one will move and maybe activate a device)
you are alterating the proprieties of it so it will no longer be a twin.
So the quantum entanglement will disapear.

The impossibility of that type of comunication is due the "principle of the uncertainty".
When you want to move a particle you will alterate it and will be no longer the same.

I have my theory about the "quantum entanglement" (lol...like I was a physic...).
For me twin particles in twin mediuns will act the same.
In fact, how they could manifest differently if they have everything in common: placement, position, weight, starting position, same medium...

But the other hand quantum physics says that everything is a probability so the same particle won´t act the same behavior in the same conditions even if indefinitly repeated.

"Quantum entanglement" breaks that "possiblility stuff", what one does the other will do 100% garanted.


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Re: The Frontier of the Universe

Post by RaZias » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:21 am

The "quantum entanglement" allowed the teletransportation experience.
Until now we teletransportated a photon and a atom.

In fact I don´t agree that is a teletransportation.
What ocurres is that the scientist dismantle something particle by particle and measure every propriety of it.

Then they say to the other scientist on other part of the world each parameter of each particle and he recreates the same object.

Is more a recreation rather a teletransportation.
The point is that the original is destroyed...it raises some questions...if the original person is destroyed is the teletransported person the same person ?
Or a clone ? Even it´s equal even at quantum level ?



The relation between "quantum entanglement" and teletransportation is this:

What happens is that the principle of uncertainty didn´t allowed to get position and speed of an object without altering one of them.

If you wanted to know the position of it you would be interfering on it´s speed, and vice-versa.
Without knowing those parameters you will never know how to recreat it...

But by splittin the particle in two particles (that are twins) we can know the speed by measuring one and the position by measuring another.

It´s more or less like this but I know that in fact you don´t know the parameters so it doesn´t defy the "principle of uncertainty".
Somehow the parameters are replicated without the scientists knowing them.
That was the part of the teletransportation that I didn´t understand.


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Re: The Frontier of the Universe

Post by Spaceman Spiff » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:03 am

If the atoms of a person are destroyed and then they are rebuilt from different atoms, it can't really be the same person, can it? It would be like a clone in many ways. It would be a huge religious debate too. What happens to the soul of the destroyed person?


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Re: The Frontier of the Universe

Post by RaZias » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:20 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:If the atoms of a person are destroyed and then they are rebuilt from different atoms, it can't really be the same person, can it? It would be like a clone in many ways. It would be a huge religious debate too. What happens to the soul of the destroyed person?
That´s why using this method for people raisis many philosopfic questions.
To answear that question it would be necessary to scientificaly prove that souls exists.

For me it´s a copy at even quantum level. I can´t see the difference between this and a clone.

I think the military will have many uses for this.

Imagine they store the info constitution of perfect soldier (like a secret project).
They could replicate him in anywhere and in any number. Even in another planet.

I rely belive that someday they will make a female bodies with a computer in the cranium instead of a human brain. (I saw a ero-sci-fi movie like that)


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Re: The Frontier of the Universe

Post by Tim Chen » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:38 pm

RaZias wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:If the atoms of a person are destroyed and then they are rebuilt from different atoms, it can't really be the same person, can it? It would be like a clone in many ways. It would be a huge religious debate too. What happens to the soul of the destroyed person?
That´s why using this method for people raisis many philosopfic questions.
To answear that question it would be necessary to scientificaly prove that souls exists.

For me it´s a copy at even quantum level. I can´t see the difference between this and a clone.

I think the military will have many uses for this.

Imagine they store the info constitution of perfect soldier (like a secret project).
They could replicate him in anywhere and in any number. Even in another planet.

I rely belive that someday they will make a female bodies with a computer in the cranium instead of a human brain. (I saw a ero-sci-fi movie like that)
I think you will see there is a bigger issue here because if you can create a copy of a man or woman then why can't you "save" the information used to make the copy to a storage device and then make multiple duplicates. This would really make a lot of philosophers crazy!


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Re: The Frontier of the Universe

Post by xenon » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:13 pm

Oct 30, 2:36 PM (ET)

By SETH BORENSTEIN


WASHINGTON (AP) - The Hubble Space Telescope is working again, taking stunning cosmic photos after a breakdown a month ago.

The 18-year-old telescope is as good as it was before a shutdown in late September, according to the Hubble Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. That glitch scotched plans for spacewalking astronauts to upgrade the Hubble earlier this month. The mission is scheduled for sometime early next year.

After part of the telescope's science computer shut down unexpectedly, NASA twice tried to switch on a back-up unit that had never been turned on. The first attempt a couple of weeks ago triggered other computer breakdowns. The second attempt was successful.

"It's back to where it was before that box failed," space telescope institute spokesman Ray Villard said Thursday. "Everything's fine."

To prove it, NASA released a glimmering new Hubble photo showing two ring-shaped galaxies after they collided. Villard called the image a "weird interaction" of the two galaxies which are 440 million light-years away. A light-year is 5.8 trillion miles.

One of Hubble's cameras still needs time before it can start running again, but it should be working by early next month, Villard said. Two other cameras are back to normal.
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Re: The Frontier of the Universe

Post by RaZias » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:29 am

Those images show the collision of 2 galaxies.

In fact our galaxy will colide with Andromeda galaxy in some bilion years.
They say it won´t be a catastrophic event since the space between stars are light-years across so I improbable to ocurre a direct colision with anything.

Anyway the gravitational fields would be a problem.


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Re: The Frontier of the Universe

Post by Tim Chen » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:45 am

RaZias wrote:Those images show the collision of 2 galaxies.

In fact our galaxy will colide with Andromeda galaxy in some bilion years.
They say it won´t be a catastrophic event since the space between stars are light-years across so I improbable to ocurre a direct colision with anything.

Anyway the gravitational fields would be a problem.
I saw this on the news yesterday. The circular galaxy is actually the "ripples" of the collisions between the two galaxies, like the waves that spread out when you throw a pebble into a pond. Scientists have simulated collisions of galaxies and gotten similar results.

However, I don't trust the simulations fully because nobody as of yet has figured out why galaxies rotate in a uniform speed. If the stars were in orbit around the middle of the galaxy then they should move much slower near the edge but they do not!!!!


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