Air command computer/timer deploy

Who invented it, who was first etc. This forum will be for members to hash out disagreements. Please keep all disagreements within this forum and keep the discussions civil (no profanity please).
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Air command computer/timer deploy

Post by Tim Chen »

Bill, why the hostility towards people who put electronic timers on their water rockets? There's nothing wrong with that. What did these guys ever do to you?
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Post by Team Seneca »

Tim Chen wrote:Bill, why the hostility towards people who put electronic timers on their water rockets? There's nothing wrong with that. What did these guys ever do to you?
It's not hostility. It's just that I never knew you guys would be so impressed with an electronic timer with a fancy name. I've put real computers on my rockets since the summer of 2005. A computer that does something too, not just a timer. I use an accelerometer to measure the flight and deploy. Back then I also used it to send signals to a small camera to take a snapshot at apogee. I'm the first one to put a computer on a water rocket and it was a real computer, not a tomy timer made from silicon.
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Post by Tim Chen »

Team Seneca wrote:
Tim Chen wrote:Bill, why the hostility towards people who put electronic timers on their water rockets? There's nothing wrong with that. What did these guys ever do to you?
It's not hostility. It's just that I never knew you guys would be so impressed with an electronic timer with a fancy name. I've put real computers on my rockets since the summer of 2005. A computer that does something too, not just a timer. I use an accelerometer to measure the flight and deploy. Back then I also used it to send signals to a small camera to take a snapshot at apogee. I'm the first one to put a computer on a water rocket and it was a real computer, not a tomy timer made from silicon.
I think you have made some false assumptions about what other people are doing and when they did them. This is a lot more than a Tomy Timer and it predates your claim by 6 months or more!

http://www.uswaterrockets.com/science/s ... ory_03.htm
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Post by october sky »

that is one of the reasons for putting a computer in your rocket, so it can time things, like when to take a pic of apogee and to activate the altimeter, and if your one the sci side get some temp and air pressure readings
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Post by Team Seneca »

Tim Chen wrote: I think you have made some false assumptions about what other people are doing and when they did them. This is a lot more than a Tomy Timer and it predates your claim by 6 months or more!

http://www.uswaterrockets.com/science/s ... ory_03.htm
Okay so I was wrong about their computer being just a timer, big deal. They are the world record holders so they really should have something pretty darn sophisticated on their rockets. I still had the idea to use a computer on a water rocket since before they did. I was designing mine for months before this story was posted so I thought of it first or at least in parallel. Therefore I'm in good company don't you think? I didn't see you find anyone else with a real onboard computer, not a simple timer you could do just as well with a resistor and capacitor, did you?
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Post by Tim Chen »

Team Seneca wrote:
Tim Chen wrote: I think you have made some false assumptions about what other people are doing and when they did them. This is a lot more than a Tomy Timer and it predates your claim by 6 months or more!

http://www.uswaterrockets.com/science/s ... ory_03.htm
Okay so I was wrong about their computer being just a timer, big deal. They are the world record holders so they really should have something pretty darn sophisticated on their rockets. I still had the idea to use a computer on a water rocket since before they did. I was designing mine for months before this story was posted so I thought of it first or at least in parallel. Therefore I'm in good company don't you think? I didn't see you find anyone else with a real onboard computer, not a simple timer you could do just as well with a resistor and capacitor, did you?
Hey Bill,

Did you check out the links on the story I sent you? There's an article about the X10 Water Rocket which mentions that it has an onboard Custom Flight Computer dated 9/27/2004, so they still have you beat by several months.

In an article dated 6/7/2004 they also talk about testing their flight computer on a rocket called "X7" on 11/11/2003. I think they did it first no matter what you say.

Hey USWR, you guys should put a search feature on your site. The cute news site motif is not very user friendly. It's hard to really navigate or find anything specific they way it's laid out.
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Post by xenon »

Team Seneca wrote:
Tim Chen wrote:Bill, why the hostility towards people who put electronic timers on their water rockets? There's nothing wrong with that. What did these guys ever do to you?
It's not hostility. It's just that I never knew you guys would be so impressed with an electronic timer with a fancy name. I've put real computers on my rockets since the summer of 2005. A computer that does something too, not just a timer. I use an accelerometer to measure the flight and deploy. Back then I also used it to send signals to a small camera to take a snapshot at apogee. I'm the first one to put a computer on a water rocket and it was a real computer, not a tomy timer made from silicon.
Why is it that eveyone in water rocketry tries to claim fame for "inventing" something? From what I can see Bill is right that the Air command timer is just a timer and not a real computer. I think that thy just call it a "flight computer" so that they can "feel important" or claim to have "invented it". It is relly no more then a simple timer and the same features could have been accomplished using a wind up timer from a happy meal toy. (maybe they are embarrassed to be seen buying happy meals or something). A more appropriate name would be "The Air command electronic deploy timer". Since I am fairly new at this can someone explain what the benifits would be to use all these fancy electronics?
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Post by Drag_Racer408a »

George's from Air Command is more than a timer. Its is a micro controler which lets him write his own programs for it. Its simple and reliable. But he has also rigged his newer versions up so that that are compatiable with his altimeter and onboard video camera.

So after he arms the system before a launch the computer turns on and starts recordng video and turns on his altimeter. So that would be a computer wouldn't you think?

Also after the rocket lands he can plug his laptop into the flight computer and download the video and altimeter data all at once. So technically speaking George's its a "true" flight computer as we define it.

Now about the tomy timer issue:

I have used both sstems before. Both have there ups and downs. The timer wears out over time and it changes the speed of the unwinding. But on the other hand is much simpler to make and cheaper. Eletronic timers/ flight computers are consistant if they are built corectly but usually weigh 50+ grams than a tomy timer.

So in the end it all depends on what you want to do and what suplies you have avalable.

Now to Bill W.
You have claimed to invented or had the idea to use a flight computer first in water rocketery. But do you have any evidence? Like a website, pictures, or a video?

The only on that i can "truly" say has a flight computer is the air command team because they have pictures and all on there site. U.S. water rockets says they have one which i ams sure they do with how sophisticated (sp?) there water rocket program seams to be.

Not tryign to start a flame pit but just trying to give credit where credit is due.
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Post by xenon »

Drag_Racer408a wrote:George's from Air Command is more than a timer. Its is a micro controler which lets him write his own programs for it. Its simple and reliable. But he has also rigged his newer versions up so that that are compatiable with his altimeter and onboard video camera.

So after he arms the system before a launch the computer turns on and starts recordng video and turns on his altimeter. So that would be a computer wouldn't you think?

Also after the rocket lands he can plug his laptop into the flight computer and download the video and altimeter data all at once. So technically speaking George's its a "true" flight computer as we define it.


Now to Bill W.
You have claimed to invented or had the idea to use a flight computer first in water rocketery. But do you have any evidence? Like a website, pictures, or a video?

The only on that i can "truly" say has a flight computer is the air command team because they have pictures and all on there site. U.S. water rockets says they have one which i ams sure they do with how sophisticated (sp?) there water rocket program seams to be.

Not tryign to start a flame pit but just trying to give credit where credit is due.
I'm not trying to start a flame war either. I'm just curious on why someone would go to all the expense and trouble to make and use a computer on their water rocket. From "Air command" Youtube videos you can see a team member starting camera/altimeter on the ground manually prior to launch so I'm not so sure they are using one. For USWaterrockets they only mention its use on their website and Bill W. does not publish any info on a website. I can understand teams competing for the 1000 foot challenge of the WRA2 records not wanting to give away "trade secrets" to their competitors but it would be nice to hear from the designers of these themselves as to advantages disadvantages of using a computer on a water rocket. Riight now all we have are third person accounts and descriptions of the computers. So I invite "Air Command", "USWaterrockets" and Bill W. to describe their computers in this thread. Maybe that will sort out "who was first" or probably the next debate, "who's is better".

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Post by Drag_Racer408a »

I don't think anyone is trying to flame so i just wanted to state that i wasn't either.

What video did you watch? On there older computers they were just timers and they did have to start the video manuallly, but on the newer design the computer turns everything on by itself.

I have never seen one of bills rockets fly. I have herd from U.S. water rockets that he has a very similar idea to there X-10 or somthing like that.

I can almost guarentee that nobody will show there designs except George. Bill's team and U.S. Water Rockets are rival teams so i am sure neither side will give up too much information on there designs.
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Post by Team Seneca »

Drag_Racer408a wrote: The only on that i can "truly" say has a flight computer is the air command team because they have pictures and all on there site. U.S. water rockets says they have one which i ams sure they do with how sophisticated (sp?) there water rocket program seams to be.
If all it takes is a photo then I am happy to provide for you.
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Team Seneca Water Rocket Onboard Flight Computer V0.5
Team Seneca Water Rocket Onboard Flight Computer V0.5
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Post by Tim Chen »

I was expecting something a little more advanced. :P
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Post by Drag_Racer408a »

Yeah me too Tim. From the sounds of how you put it bill, your system is more than a timer but from the photo it looks like it is only a timer.
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Air command timer deploy

Post by Team Seneca »

Tim Chen wrote:I was expecting something a little more advanced. :P
Ha ha very funny. This is not my latest design. It's just a prototype to prove I have my own computer. Dragracer408a said that he didn't believe anybody that didn't show a picture of their computer so I just did.

I don't want to show my newest designs because I perfected a new form factor that everybody will copy because it saves a huge amount of weight and space. I will gladly discuss my older versions with you guys and keep my best stuff secret, just like everyone else does.

I'm just one of the only guys who is honest enough not to be pretending to be sharing all my innovations with the world while husbanding away all the truly useful info I have gathered. I'm going to be up front about it, not be all shifty and deceptive like some others are.
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Post by Team Seneca »

Drag_Racer408a wrote:George's from Air Command is more than a timer. Its is a micro controler which lets him write his own programs for it. Its simple and reliable. But he has also rigged his newer versions up so that that are compatiable with his altimeter and onboard video camera.

So after he arms the system before a launch the computer turns on and starts recordng video and turns on his altimeter. So that would be a computer wouldn't you think?

Also after the rocket lands he can plug his laptop into the flight computer and download the video and altimeter data all at once. So technically speaking George's its a "true" flight computer as we define it.
Where are you getting all this information from? I've never seen any of this before. Do you have inside info or are you just making stuff up?

The last thing I read said they were using a camera and altimeter that could record like an hour of data so they could be manually started before pressurizing and would run until the rocket landed and could be shut down manually.

I've seen some of your ideas mentioned as planned future enhancements and some I've never seen or heard of and frankly some seem like a pointless waste of time. Why would someone waste effort, space, and weight to add circuitry and wiring to read out the altimeter and camera memories through a flight computer when the cam and altimeter already have connectors on them to load directly to a PC?
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